Re: comma question

Subject: Re: comma question
From: Jeanne Rescigno <jeanne -at- valuenyc -dot- com>
To: "TECHWR-L" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- raycomm -dot- com>
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:14:23 -0500


At 01:53 PM 1/28/2003 -0700, Karen L. Zorn wrote:

There's the infamous legal example....
A will states: "monies to be split equally between Sally, Tom and Dick." The probate court states that there are two entities: Sally, Tom and Dick.

This really looks apocryphal. Even as an tireless booster of the serial comma, I can't claim that there is much chance that this is anything but a list of three equal elements--in spite of the between/among problem--unless something else in the will dictates such an interpretation. (Of course, a lawyer-written will would clarify that Tom & Dick were to share 50% jointly and then go on about their heirs and assigns. The whole thing would take up much more space. So it could be a really badly written amateur will.)


At 03:24 PM 1/29/2003 -0800, Janice Gelb wrote:
Paul Moloney wrote:
Wouldn't that be the sense if there was a colon in the sentence?
For example:
"I'd like to thank my parents: Ann Rynd and God.
With a comma, to me - at least - it reads correctly.

The red flag here is the phrase "to me - at least." Perhaps
the comma does not take the place of a colon to you but
for other readers, it might.

In the "wrong" interpretation, I don't think the comma takes the place of colon so much as separating a noun from an appositional phrase. If you feel strongly that, with a comma rather than a colon, there must be a series of three equal elements, then there isn't any ambiguity. But if the comma *either* separates items in a series *or* sets off an appositional phrase--but you can't be sure--well then you're in a muddle.
We are helped here, of course, by the fact that one interpretation is improbable.
Try this:
I'm travelling with my brothers, Barney and Fred.
Are Barney and Fred my brothers and, therefore, I'm only travelling with two men (comma setting off an appositional phrase)? Or am I travelling with at least four people--two individuals (named Barney and Fred) in addition to at least two brothers (unnamed)? You really need the second comma to be sure about the latter interpretation (a series but without the helpful serial comma).

That said, if Barney and Fred are my brothers, my sentence could so readily be otherwise construed (because of usage), that it is probably best to re-write it as:
I'm travelling with Barney and Fred, my two brothers. (or "who are my two brothers" or something like that)

And if they are not my brothers, it's probably best to say:
I'm travelling with Barney, Fred, and my brothers. (with or without the serial comma)
or
I'm travelling with my brothers and Barney and Fred. (really in any order)


That's why many organizations (including mine) require the serial comma. Eliminating it doesn't seem to gain you very much, while including it guarantees that your meaning is clear.
-- Janice

It would be hard to put this better. Note that every style book that dictates omitting the comma says "generally" or "usually" and then gives examples where you might think better and include it. To my knowledge, no one dictating the use of the serial comma ever stops and worries about where it might introduce ambiguity.

Best,
Jeanne


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References:
RE: comma question: From: David Downing
Re: comma question: From: Karen L. Zorn

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