RE: FWD: Managing managers and cell phones

Subject: RE: FWD: Managing managers and cell phones
From: "Bruce Evans" <bruce -dot- evans -at- sympatico -dot- ca>
To: "TECHWR-L" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- raycomm -dot- com>
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 18:36:52 -0400

Hi, Bruce:

Certainly got your dander up, didn't I?

Fortunately for both of us, I suspect a company that would hire you,
wouldn't hire me and a company that would hire me, wouldn't hire you.
However, to offer a bit of paternal advice, you do have an attitude problem
that's going to give you problems no matter what type of manger you work

Yours in independence with Ted Turner, Frank Stronach and all the old robber


Bruce Evans, M.D.
Family Physician and Technical Writer

"Effective leadership is not about making speeches or being liked;
leadership is defined by results not attributes."

-----Original Message-----
From: bounce-techwr-l-10309 -at- lists -dot- raycomm -dot- com
[mailto:bounce-techwr-l-10309 -at- lists -dot- raycomm -dot- com]On Behalf Of Bruce
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2004 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: FWD: Managing managers and cell phones

You just don't get it, do you?

To start with, you'd be in no position to fire me at the company I was
talking about. It works on flex-time, and so long as I put in the
expected hours and met my deadlines, if I wanted to take five minutes to
bird watch, I could. You'd also have to explain what your problem was
with the writer who had got documentation on track and actually read by

For another, you clearly belong to a very different school of management
from me. When I play manager, pride and aristocracy have so little to do
with my style that I consider that, in most cases the more orders I have
to give, the worse job I am doing. I may give work to somebody that I
could do because my time is better spent on something only I can do, but
if I'm wasting another employee's time, even a subordinate's, then I'm
a liability to the company. I also consider it a duty as a manager to
show some respect to those whom I organize; it means we work together
better, and they're more likely to show other people the same respect
and work together better with others.

As for the training comment, I was being ironic and perhaps a little
hyperbolic when I wrote. However, on sober thought, I would defend it
anyway. It's a novice's naivety to imagine that the flow of information
goes only one way in the manager-employee relation - and I'm not talking
about formal feedback, either. Managers don't need to be loved, and, in
fact, those who try to be loved are usually disasters. But they do need
to be respected, and the easiest way to gain that respect is for them to
show respect for their subordinates. If employees aren't showing
respect, then any manager worth keeping needs to observe that and mend
his or her behavior, if necessary going to a superior for advice. I was
simply providing the feedback in a lowkey and humorous way.

Originally, I didn't mention the manager's fate, because it wasn't
relevant to the story. However, now, I'll mention that, a couple of
weeks later, he was fired for incompetence. One of the complaints
against him was that he was wasting too many people's time. What's more,
the complaints came from many subordinate to him in the company.

That's what proud and aristocratic management techniques lead to - the
Peasant's Revolt, followed quickly by the unemployement office.

Yours in solidarity with John Ball and Wat Tyler,

Bruce Byfield 604.421.7177


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Re: FWD: Managing managers and cell phones: From: Bruce Byfield

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