Discrimination (was Re: Disclosing rates)

Subject: Discrimination (was Re: Disclosing rates)
From: "Wilcox, John (Contractor)" <wilcoxj -at- WDNI -dot- COM>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 17:41:00 -0700

From: Mark Dando

John Wilcox wrote:

>Time prevents my from sharing the war stories I have about employees
>disclosing salaries or hourly rates. In some companies it's grounds for
>termination, and I've never worked for anyone who didn't at least frown
>on the practice. I'd just like to make two interrelated points here.

In Australia, an employer who sacked an employee for discussing pay
would quickly find themselves in court and end up paying the employee
damages and/or reinstating them.

John replies:
Chalk up another point for Oz!

Mark continues:
I'm self-employed and generally a supporter of market systems as opposed
state regulation, but I can't see what "free" enterprise has to do with
non-disclosure of rates.

John replies:
Actually, nothing. I think you missed the previous post, in which
Richard Yanowitz mentioned writers unionizing.

Mark continues:
Indeed, quite the opposite. Any economist will tell you that a "perfect"
market is based on transparency -- full disclosure of price and other
information about what's being traded.

Anybody in business, and that includes me, wants and needs as much
information about prices as possible. Imagine trying to buy a house in a
market where there was an agreement between buyers and sellers not to
disclose prices.

John replies:
Imagine trying to SELL a house and being required to disclose the price
YOU paid for it.

From: Becca Price

I'm not rabid about much - I'm too tired to be rabid. But if all things
are equal, then free enterprize is great. But when I work just as hard
as someone else, and do just as good or better work, but they're getting
paid more than I am because I happen to have two intact X chromosomes
they don't, then I get angry.

John replies:
Let's not get too far off subject. What was the subject, anwyay? I
think this particular thread frayed off from the message in which
unionizing was mentioned, and that frayed off from one about disclosing
rates. My point was -- and I'd really like to drop my end of the thread
with this -- that people should get paid what they're WORTH. They
should not expect either more or less based MERELY on whether they
possess a union card, a particular chromosome structure, a certain
pigmentation, or anything else.

From: Nina Esile
I must agree with you. I, too, have two intact X chromosomes and even
the generation before mine kicked down the doors I now walk through, I
experience the discrimination that we all hope would disappear. There's
the subtle discrimination that's used against the uninitiated in this
freelancing business. When you first start out on your own, it's pretty
to find out what rates are like unless colleagues are willing to talk.

John replies:
If anyone wants to know what I make, I'll tell them -- as soon as I get
the clearance from my employer. But frankly, I haven't noticed anyone
sharing this type of info on this list.


John Wilcox, Documentation Specialist
Timberlands Information Services
Weyerhaeuser, WWC 2E2
Tacoma, WA 98477-0001 USA
253-924-7972 wilcoxj -at- wdni -dot- com

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