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| Here's a good response I got. Original name ripped off to protect the
| innocent.
Well, thanks for the effort, but I did post it to the list and didn't use an
assumed name. ;-)
| > Sorry, but it is an outright lie to say that you made "about $55,000"
| > when
| > you in fact made "$32,500." I do not know a hiring manager who would
| > look at
| > it otherwise, and I know quite a few. I would certainly not consider
| > making
| > an offer to a candidate who made such a statement. Using the word
| > "about"
| > does not mask the fact that it's a lie.
|
| No, a lie is to say "I made $53,543 in total compensation" when you have
| no fricking idea what the benefits REALLY cost. That's a lie.
Both are lies, Andrew. You may disagree, but I think anyone caught making
such a statement would be disqualified from employment. So even if *you* do
not think this is a lie, it is certainly a very poor strategy to be
suggesting to others. And are you really saying that you would have NO
concern about hiring an individual who lied to you during the interview?
| It is not a lie when to tack on qualifiers that indicate a range. You can
| debate the RANGE of that grayness, but that is not a lie.
The word "about" does not connote a range. I won't quote from the dictionary
because I think we all have a pretty clear idea of what the word "about"
means, (just as we knew what the definition of "is" was). If the candidate
were to say, "I made between $25,000 and $50,000," that would indicate a
range; "about $55,000" indicates a number very close to $55,000. However,
$55,000 is actually 70% more than the actual salary in your hypothetical
interview. You may think this is vague or some kind of gray area, but I
think the vast majority of hiring managers would agree that is a lie. Lying
to the hiring manager, especially about something that can in most cases be
checked and verified, is not a good approach.
| The respondant's attitude is typical HR muscle. "YOU WILL MAKE NOTHING
| MORE THAN WHAT YOU USED TO MAKE!!!"
Just to set the record straight, I have never worked in HR (or anything even
close); I am not interested in, and do not usually ask about, a candidate's
salary history. I have worked in some environments where these questions
were required, though, and yes usually by those "HR types."
| How on earth would any of us ever move
| up and make good salaries if we did not try to up-sell ourselves?
"Up-selling" yourself (is that a word?) is fine. Fortunately, it can be
accomplished without resorting to outright lies.
| Let me put it this way: if your shakrahs feel more properly aligned by
| telling the pure, objective facts all the time. Then do it and sleep well.
| But if you want to get ahead and build wealth, you need to sell yourself.
| Sales is a game of ranges and grayness. You're never going to succeed in
| sales if you can't work the numbers. When you look for a job, you are
| selling yourself - plain and simple.
|
| Now, if a $22,000 upsell is too much for you - then don't do it. Do a
| $5000 upsell. Just make sure you are always up-selling yourself.
Of course looking for a job is about selling yourself. You can do this quite
effectively without telling lies.
| Its a dog-eat-cow world, you need to compete. There are no rules, there
| are layers of grayness. Either you manipulate those layers to work in your
| favor, or you become a victim of that, perpetually at the mercy of others.
|
| There is NOTHING unethical about trying to make more money.
Certainly not. There is something unethical about lying to achieve the goal,
however.
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