RE: Glad to have Andrew back / Wonder what he thinks of ISO-9000 cert ification

Subject: RE: Glad to have Andrew back / Wonder what he thinks of ISO-9000 cert ification
From: "Sean O'Donoghue-Hayes (EAA)" <Sean.O'Donoghue-Hayes -at- ericsson -dot- com -dot- au>
To: "TECHWR-L" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- raycomm -dot- com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 09:16:00 +1000



Though I ride into the valley of death I fear not.......yeah I am going to
say something to defend ISO-9000.

No it will not solve all your problems.

It is a framework.

It needs to be sponsored, pushed, and mandated by the top down, with the
bottom wanting to do things in a more organised manner.

It is usually better than folks running around being cowboys.

It works well in some places, and is to much of an overhead in others...

If you get consistent crap perhaps what you are doing is crap, not the
process ensuring it is consistent crap. Even consistent crap means you can
find the places it is crappy, and make the crap less...errr....crap like!

regards and thanks,
Sean

~yes I have been involved in quality...and no having a quality process is
NOT always the same as having quality.~

-----Original Message-----
From: John Fleming [mailto:johntwrl -at- hotmail -dot- com]
Sent: Tuesday, 6 August 2002 9:07 AM
To: TECHWR-L
Subject: Re: Glad to have Andrew back / Wonder what he thinks of
ISO-9000 cert ification




On Mon, 5 Aug 2002 14:45:50 -0400, while chained to a desk in the
scriptorium, sbri -at- haestad -dot- com ("Sean Brierley") wrote:

>$I'm not Andrew, but I think ISO-9000 certification is a crock. That is,
>$the idea ain't bad, of having a documented, repeatable process. But, you
>$can document crap, it adds to the cost of a product in an inappropriate
>$way, and it smacks of protectionism.

I think the whole idea behind ISO 9000 was to provide a consistent quality
product. That is, if I took a batch of product from Plant A, all items in
that batch would be of roughly the same quality. Further, if I compared the

product from Plant A to the product from Plant B, the two should have
roughly the same quality.

As others have pointed out, it doesn't matter if the product is crap. It is

consistent crap.

At the same time, if the product is good, there may be an advantage to
having ISO 9000 certification, at least from a marketing perspective.

There is a real benefit to the salesman who can show a product to the
customer and be able to honestly say, "Yes, we can produce X amount of these

and they will all be of comparable quality. Does this meet your needs?"


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