Re: Improper language??

Subject: Re: Improper language??
From: Mike Bygrave <bygravem -at- INTUITIVE -dot- CO -dot- UK>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 16:21:41 +-100

>In other words, take it like an adult.

No, not at all - please don't try and read meaning into my arguments which I haven't put there. This isn't an issue about 'being an adult' - the issue here is values, and - more specifically - trying to assign personal values onto others (when you think theirs don't agree with yours).

>If accepting vulgarity in a professional forum is your definition of being an adult then call me a

See my previous point - you have brought this concept in, presumably to suit the argument you want to make.

>To me, a person who resorts to profanity has already lost the discussion. The
profanity belies his frustration and his ability to support his views.

No, this is completely wrong.
You choose not to use profanity because you don't like it - that's fine. However, it is presumptious, patronising and irrelevant for you to start assigning all manner of negative attributes to someone who has made a different choice to you. What is it that makes you right and the 'swearer' wrong?

>But someone has collapsed - the original poster! And by supporting the
use of the vulgarity and chastising those who speak against it, he has
sucked you into the hole also.

Is there no end to this self-righteous nonsense? You can't write off opinions simply because they don't support your stance. Please don't patronise me or anyone else by suggesting that the writer of the original message "sucked {me/us} into the hole also". There is no 'hole' - there is simply a common phrase which clearly doesn't bother us as much as you think it should.

>I do not believe that it was a "slip"
into the vernacular. Do not try to pass it on as an oversight!

Hold on a minute - this sounds a little oppressive to me. As I mentioned in my first message, this isn't the end of the world, and yet you sound as if it should be made a hanging offence.

>This "man" is an Editor! Why then, did he choose this word? I am hard pressed to understand why
he couldn't have strongly stated his viewpoints without the word?

Perhaps he could have omitted that word, but why should he? I can't see why you have such a problem with a single word. I really don't want to turn this into a personal attack, but I would suggest that the strength of your reaction against a small suggestive word is your problem, not ours. Can you actually define what it is that's so offensive about the word in question? I suspect that, if you try to rationalise this, you'll find that there's nothing wrong - you're just a bit hung up on swearing.

>If the viewpoints could be stated without the offensive language, then what was the purpose for the word other than to offend?

This shows an inflated sense of self-importance. He clearly didn't include the word to deliberately offend people like you. Perhaps he (like I) didn't realise that some members of the list are so prudish.

>If Mr.Hart were face-to-face with me, I would insist that he not use the
language in my presence. If he could not refrain, I would ask him to no
longer converse with me. If he still could not refrain, I would employ
more "persuasive" means.

hmmm... whose behaviour is the most offensive in this scenario? Has it occurred to you that your behaviour may be more anti-social than his or mine?

>To me, you're perceptions of what is mature and adult (expressing vulgarity
and accepting it) and what is childish (not accepting it - which you
call prudish) are completely backwards.

Maturity and the concept of 'adult' - tolls in your argument, not mine.

>Or, maybe because I have spoke out against it, you
should have me banned from the list for being a "prude" and "totally

This is outrageous - is it necessary for you to try and score with cheap and tacky shots such as this? In my original message I specifically state that I don't think anyone should be removed from the list - I'd ask you not to ignore that in a petty effort to score points on the list. Furthermore, again you are trying to assign values to me (in
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