Re: Fun Pairs -- mute point vs. moot point

Subject: Re: Fun Pairs -- mute point vs. moot point
From: Tracy Boyington <tracy_boyington -at- OKVOTECH -dot- ORG>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:05:21 -0500

Sherman,Diane R wrote:

> if i tell you that i've heard the term 'phat' used to mean 'excellent,'
> it doesn't mean that i coined the term 'phat.'

No, but the fact that you've heard it from one person doesn't mean
anybody else uses it or understands it in that manner. Lots of people
(including my nephew, unfortunately ;-) use "phat." Who else uses "mute
point?" I didn't mean to question your friend's intelligence -- you
brought up "mute point" in a thread about misused words, so I assumed
you were pointing it out as a misuse of "moot point" that your friend
had coined.

> i think my friend learned the term 'mute point' when she was a student
> at oxford.

Then maybe someone in the UK can help us here. I have not heard this
term used in the US.

> it seems to be a very logical construct, considering what
> the random house 'word of the day' site said about 'moot point' having
> two meanings that are complete opposites.

Not to me (especially since the questionable term seems to be simply a
mispronunciation of the common term.) I don't think the two meanings of
"moot point" are opposite at all. Your earlier post said:

> "One sense, which picks up the "discussion" aspect, is 'able to be
> argued at a moot', that is, 'open to discussion; debatable; arguable'.
> This had always been the more common sense. Another sense, which picks
> up the "hypothetical" side, has until recently been strictly a legal
> sense: 'able to be argued only at a moot, but without significance in
> the real world', that is, 'hypothetical; purely academic' and hence
> 'irrelevant'.

In other words, both definitions mean "arguable." You've taken the
definitions "able to be argued at a moot" and "able to be argued only at
a moot" and said they're opposites, but they don't sound like opposites
to me.

> all she said is that the term "moot point" is the opposite of "mute
> point." she must have meant that it's acceptable to use "moot point"
> for the "debatable" definition and "mute point" for the "irrelevant"
> definition.

Magic 8 Ball says "debatable" and "irrelevant" are *not* opposites --
anyone on this list can tell you that. ;-> Anyway, "moot" is used for
the "irrelevant" definition *and* for the "debatable" definition.

For comparison, here are the definitions of "moot" from the American
Heritage Dictionary:

moot (n)
(1) An ancient English meeting (we'll ignore that one ;-)
(2) A hypothetical case argued by law students as an exercise

moot (v)
(1a) To bring up as a subject for discussion or debate
(1b) To discuss or debate
(2) To plead or argue (a case) in a moot court

moot (adj)
(1) Subject to debate, arguable: a moot question
(2a) Law: Without legal significance, through having been previously
decided or settled
(2b) Of no practical importance

So this whole discussion is, surely, moot. ;-) If "mute point" *is*
used in the UK, I hope someone on techwr-l can set me straight.

Tracy
--
==============================================
Tracy Boyington tracy_boyington -at- okvotech -dot- org
Oklahoma Department of Vocational and Technical Education
Stillwater, OK, USA
http://www.okvotech.org/cimc/home.htm
==============================================

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